Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Hello and welcome to the Coaching in Education podcast series, I'm Leigh Hatcher. I'm in a Skype conversation with Stephen Auer, Principal of Hercules Road Primary School at Kippa-Ring, North of Brisbane, Queensland.
What's the Stephen Auer story at work?

Stephen Auer:
I've been an employee of Department of Education and Training, which is in Queensland, since 1987. I was a teacher for six months, I was a district reliever for six months, and then I became a principal of a small school. Pretty much since 1988, I've been a principal of schools under 200. About 2010 I came to Brisbane and became a deputy in a large school, and then from 2013 I went to a number of other schools and finally in 2015, I ended up at Hercules Road, which is on the Redcliffe peninsula, just North of Brisbane.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Okay. Give us a brief description of Hercules Road Primary School, Stephen, and its context?

Stephen Auer:
Okay. Hercules Road is a Band 10 primary school. It has 900 students in it, about 100 staff. We're from a middle class, middle-lower class suburb. We have a number of families who are unemployed, we have some issues around substance abuse, that sort of stuff, domestic violence. But a lot of our families are old fashioned blue-collar families, they work hard for their money, they want good things for their kids.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
As everyone does. Stephen, a few years ago you moved to the School Improvement Unit in the Department of Education and Training. What did you learn there?

Stephen Auer:
As part of the review team there, I travelled across Queensland and it gave me a chance to look into schools as it did all of the reviewers, and we compared where schools were up to against a benchmark or a tool called a "school improvement tool." It was developed by Professor Geoff Masters, and it allowed me to look at an area, a particular interest of mine, which was coaching. Coaching was taking many forms in all of those schools. I think I reviewed 19 schools. I saw how things worked, I saw how people were trying to make coaching work, and in my mind, I started to assemble a notion of what I could do to further improve the coaching work I was doing in my then school, Glenella, and later in the same year, Hercules Road.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Of all things that you could have on your radar as a teacher, and a principal, why coaching? What was the appeal about that?

Stephen Auer:
Coaching really clearly to me was a way of building teacher capability. It wasn't something that you promoted as a deficit model. You weren't saying to people, "You need coaching because you can't do this stuff." It was about, "If we can coach you we can further develop your skills," and by further developing your skills as a teacher, student learning becomes I wouldn't say easier, but you've got more options to teach children how to learn. Long-term, that leads to improved results. I've been involved in a project in Queensland called "Future Leaders" and I've done a chunk of research around that, and in two different settings, both Geebung and Hercules Road. Geebung had 300 students, Herc Road's got 900. Clearly, we can show that as a result of coaching and other things, student outcomes have improved.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
You've been through the entire GCI coaching model, about 80 hours of it. Tell us the difference that it's made to you both personally and professionally, and why of all the models, as you explained before, why GCI?

Stephen Auer:
As a result of the work I did with SIU, the one really clear thing I took out of all of the schools was that if you have a whole school consistent approach, and you start that from a common base point, everyone understands what's going on. That's why I went to GCI, because I had the chance to do some training, and it was obvious to me it gave a core foundation of skills. I've then gone on and done a range of other training, solutions focused, team coaching, master classes, and what that's done is built a repertoire of skills that I've got that I can also refer my coaches to.
I've got 16 coaches at my current school, and I can refer them to different training packages that might add to their skills. As a coach, you need to constantly develop your skills and you need to add to what you can offer your coachees, because they're all really different, but that core common foundation which has given us a core common language has been a real foundation to what we could launch from.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
The difference that it's made to you, as I said before, both personally and professionally, Stephen?

Stephen Auer:
Okay, so personally and professionally, it's made me think about what I do. I think over time I wouldn't say I GROWTH coach or I solutions coach, or I use all of the strategies I've been taught in all areas. I think rather it'd be a better way to say that now as a leader, I've got a coaching approach to leadership, and what I'm trying to do is get people to lead with me and develop with me. It's ongoing what I need to do, but also other people. As a leader, I think that's made me a more effective leader, because my overall message to the people I work with is, we all need to continue to develop. It's a supported way of doing it, it's a confidential way of doing it for my teachers, because my coaches don't report back to me, and I think that ethical behaviour based on values has been another thing that the coaching process has reinforced for me.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
You arrived in 2015 I think at Hercules, and made GCI coaching mandatory for every teacher. Let me raise three questions or issues with you about that. First, that's a big commitment for a school.

Stephen Auer:
It was a big commitment. In terms of I4S or Gonski funding or the various names it’s had, we had the funding to do it but it was most obvious to me that that was the way to build teacher capability. If we built everyone's capability, then every child had their equal chance of improving, and that's what we wanted to do. It's cost us big money. Tens of thousands of dollars, but already teachers are seeing the difference, and already students are seeing the difference. That's a good investment.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Yes. What was the staff reaction initially, but then beyond that?

Stephen Auer:
Initially there was a number of changes. The first one I was coming in and replaced a gentleman who'd been here for 23 years, so there was some initial I guess transition shock, adjustment required. Even though I'd talked a lot about collaboration and talked about involving people, I then made this thing mandatory. That was based on some research I'd read where very clearly, the research of Dr. Jim Knight in this case, commented that if the people who didn't take up coaching voluntarily were typically the ones who needed it most. From a research point of view, I was adamant that everyone was going to be involved.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
And you're not calling them a crap teacher by that.

Stephen Auer:
No, I'm saying to them, "The expectation I have of you to improve is the same expectation I have of myself." As I explained to them, "Your coaching's confidential from me, your boss, but my coaching, my boss actually sits in the room and is part of the coaching process even though he's not my coach." They were aware also that I was being coached at a higher level of supervision than they were, and over time, you've always got your early adopters, you've always got your people who once they see how it works, come onboard, but 12 months on, pretty much we've got no reluctance.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Okay. What's been the result in terms of student wellbeing, Stephen?

Stephen Auer:
In terms of student wellbeing, I would say really interestingly, the one thing I've noticed the most is the quality of the feedbacks given to students by their teachers has improved significantly, and then as learners, they know exactly what they've got to do as they call it, as their "next step." As a result of that, they're more comfortable about their learning, because they know what their goal is, what's next for them, and there's some really strong relationships which is the key to coaching that's now filtering further and further and further into classrooms.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
A great thing.

Stephen Auer:
And as kids have become used to that, they're actually much happier to come to school. Not every single one of them, Leigh. That would be a lie.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
I'll take as many as you can, put it that way.

Stephen Auer:
Yeah, but a big chunk out of the ...

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
That's great.

Stephen Auer:
... 900 genuinely are engaged in that process.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Yeah. Give us a picture of how you apply the GCI model in your school? Say each month, how's it being sustained practically? What's it look like?

Stephen Auer:
Okay. The 16 coaches work with their coachees on a three-week roster. Initially we said, "Every three weeks you'll be coached," but as we've grown accustomed to the process and we've begun to differentiate for different groups, what we're finding is some coachees get coached three weeks in a row because they're trying to improve a skill rapidly. Some coachees are trying to develop a really long-term goal, so that three weekly check-ins’ really working with them. Others we're now coaching in small groups, pairs, three or four at a time. Now, beyond that, the coaches also get coached.
The 16 coaches who are working with the 50 odd teaching staff, they're coached every three weeks with myself in a triadic form. Two coaches work with me and I coach them about their coaching. That's how it works at Herc Road.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Okay. What would you say were the key lessons that have emerged from your experience there, Stephen?

Stephen Auer:
Number one is you've got to have a solid foundation and GCI's provided us that. Number two, you have to behave ethically and gain people's trust which is one of the core values of GCI, and if you do that, teachers will come onboard and they will continue to develop. As a principal, I want my teachers as well as myself and my leadership teams, to continually develop, and as we're all being coached, we are seeing that. The other bonus, and we knew it would happen, but it's taken a time to get there, is children are more comfortable with their learning. All of the learners in the school, whether they're children or adults, are actively engaged in improving themselves, and growth coaching has been a foundation for that.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
You're listening the Coaching in Education podcast series. I'm in a Skype conversation with Stephen Auer. So, let's drill down to where the rubber hits the road. What's been the impact on people and careers from coaching at Hercules Road?

Stephen Auer:
How's it changed people? I can think of a teacher, I'm going to call her Angela. She works here with us at Herc Road. She spent a lot of time thinking about how she provided feedback to students because she was trying to align her goal setting and her success criteria to her feedback. She spent 12 months working with her coach and she's really happy with how she's progressed. Her coach is really happy with how she's progressed, and as a supervisor who still goes into a room, I've seen her come forward in leaps and bounds which to me was quite a surprise because she was already a highly competent teacher ...

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Wow.

Stephen Auer:
... And she progressed even further. Interestingly, Leigh, at the end of the 12 months, we offered a number of staff the chance to do some coaching training. She said, "Now, I understand the whole promise, I want to be coached because I think that'll make me a better teacher." She's now gone through the CAP program, and in a couple of weeks, she'll do the last two days of training. There's a real success story at an individual level.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Too right.

Stephen Auer:
Another example is James, and James is a gentleman I worked with at Geebung School. When I interviewed him as part of a project for future leaders, I talked to him about what had changed for him as a coachee. He was really clear that when he initially engaged in coaching, he thought he was on a scale, and we use a scale, a seven or an eight teacher. He said on reflection he was probably a three.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Wow.

Stephen Auer:
Because what he'd really done is he'd become comfortable and he was just doing what he was comfortable with. That really wasn't meeting the needs of the students, and the further he got into coaching, the more he was challenged by that process, and he had to have a really good look at himself. Really pleasingly, he said he's back to where he started. Not in terms of what he was doing, but in terms of where he'd rate himself, because he said he's had to change how he’d teach to adapt more to the children's needs being met and the process of being coached let him think about that. He was challenged by his coaches, he had to think about his practise professionally, and had to identify rather than being comfortable, he needed to progress his teaching. To be quite honest with you, Leigh, he was actually proud of himself.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Fantastic. I love hearing stories like this. Finally, what's next for you and Hercules Road with coaching do you think, Stephen?

Stephen Auer:
I think next is how do we start to look at the children coaching each other. Because we've got teachers already coaching each other, as part of the ongoing training, and we'll continue with that, but the next big thing will be our kids have enjoyed giving feedback so much and getting feedback that they want to go further.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Wow, great stuff.

Stephen Auer:
Most of our kids are capable of coaching and the ones who probably aren't yet, is just because they don't know enough about what it looks like.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Sure.

Stephen Auer:
And they enjoy giving feedback as much as they get feedback, and kids are wonderful because they're typically not as politically correct as the adults. If they think you need to improve something, they'll let you know.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
They'll tell you. Yeah, good.

Stephen Auer:
And they don't do it quite as delicately as we do it as adults, but sometimes that directness is what needs to happen.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Yeah, sure. There's no guessing where they're coming from.

Stephen Auer:
No, so that'll be the next big body of work for us.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Great stuff. It's a great story. Stephen Auer, thank you so much indeed for joining us.

Stephen Auer:
Leigh, it's been a pleasure, and thanks for your time.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
You've been listening to the Coaching in Education podcast series, I'm Leigh Hatcher. Have a listen to a range of other inspiring stories in this story atwww.growthcoaching.com.au